The Mishal Husain Show (Bloomberg)

Thank you.

All right, yeah. But I mean, life is busy.

If there was an election tomorrow, we would win easily. But the trouble is it's a marathon to the next election. We've hit the 13 mile marker. We're a mile ahead. So it's a good thing we've done what we've done, but there's a long way to go.

Yeah, that's the point. We now need change from the inside. We've not had enough change. We are atrophying as a as a country we're declining economically, we're declining societally, we're declining culturally. People are leaving.

We're in real, real trouble. So we don't need, we now need a disrupter, not from the outside to change perceptions, but from the inside to actually change things. Am I ready for it? Yes.

I've been in politics for 30 years.

I was in the European Parliament for over two decades. I led a group in the European Parliament for over ten years. I've got a lot more experience than Keir Starmer or many of the other prime ministers we've had in the recent years.

And nor have they.

You know what? The rank, the title, the position doesn't interest me at all. It doesn't interest me in the least. I couldn't care less about it. What interests me is what you can do with it.

And there are fundamentally two types of people in politics. Those that wanna be something. And those that wanna do something. And I've always been a person that's wanted to do something. In the past, what I've done is helped change public opinion, helped shift national debate.

I'm now moving that on to the next logical stage.

What do you think I've been doing for the last 25 years.

I'm the only living human being in this country who was built political movements on a table like this with a telephone, a piece of paper and a pencil. I can build things. I can do things. My track record says that.

I mean, look, it's it's clearly an enormous job. And the scale of the problems that we face, the institutional barriers that will get put before us. I you know, I do understand all of that. I tell you what, if we don't do this, then by 2035, I shudder to think what this country will be, genuinely, what this country will be like. So we have to do this.

I think we've had too many unifiers, and look where consensus politics has got us. Look at the mess it's got.

You'd govern you'd govern as a majority government. You'd govern on a radical manifesto that says the country needs fundamental reform. And of course, some people won't like it, but that's the way it is.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. My father was a stockbroker for over half a century. My grandfather was a stockbroker for over half a century. So a lot of our family had worked, in fact, on both sides in the city. I was here in the 80s.

I was here in that transformative period where, let's be frank, what was a bit of an old boy's club, through Big Bang, became an international global center.

Yeah. The city in its heyday, if you like, opening up, innovative, Thatcher's time.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, back then I was. But I mean, you know, bear in mind we're talking 40 years ago. There were a different set of economic problems. We didn't have the social problems in Thatcher's time that we've got now, but that that's one aspect of life that's worse.

So I was here when yeah, I mean, kind of by the mid-to-late 80s. I mean, it was the most exciting, incredible and fun place to be.

Nothing like this.

They were mining communities who had a very bleak time. By the way, they had an even bleaker time in John Major's years when we unnecessarily closed pits. But what I mean is we were all British. There was a much bigger sense of togetherness despite the economic division that there is in the country today.

Well, that's a ridiculous thing to say.

We have all sorts of problems. We have massive economic problems now, falling GDP per capita being perhaps top of the list, although very rarely talked about in Westminster.

Yes, there were divisions then. You're absolutely right. But the social problems that we face today are worse. Look, I the thing about the City was I can remember when the phone rang. That it occasionally was Paris, occasionally was Frankfurt, but much more likely to be Singapore or Santiago.

This was a global trading center and I couldn't understand.

Far less than it was, and I couldn't understand the political obsession with our next door neighbors, the little backyard market called Europe. Oh yes, it's a big market, blah, blah blah, but it's 15% of global GDP. So really when I saw the Single European Act coming in in '86, I was sort of like, what are we doing? And then I saw the British establishment preparing for us to join the Euro in 1990, we join the exchange rate mechanism.

Which I predicted.

Which I predicted. Yep, I predicted it the very night we joined. I was in a bar just over there saying this will never, ever work. And this is what really got me into politics. I couldn't understand what I saw in my day to day life here.

what I saw government doing were two very different things.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Do I think freedom is worth it? Yes, absolutely. Do I think self-government is worth, governance, is worth it? Yes, of course I do. Do I think the ability to control your borders is worth having?

Yes, I do. Now, have we exercised it? No.

Stirling's been falling for decades.

No, I mean, look, you know, even as Keir Starmer himself says, the deep seated economic problems within the country pre-date Brexit, even predate the pandemic and our response to it. You know, our productivity problems being perhaps just one very, very good example. I am angry that a Conservative government with a whopping great majority didn't take advantage of it.

Oh miles better. Miles better. And I hate to see what's happening in the City.

Well, the whole treaty is up for renegotiation anyway. It's a very poor treaty. We can do a lot better than that. We'll have to play hardball. If you play hardball, you have to mean it.

That's the art of.

Well yeah, but from whom?

Weak people. They didn't believe in it. They didn't believe in it.

They never, Mishal, they never believed in it.

They belatedly, they belatedly accepted Brexit, because if they hadn't, they would have faced political extinction.

I wouldn't be running. I wouldn't be running.

If Brexit hadn't happened. The reason I'm here.

Well, look, we've been weak as hell. We've given in. We've given in. We've given in. We've expected favors in return.

We haven't got any. It needs a tough renegotiation. And ultimately, even though we've got huge economic problems, they've got some pretty serious problems too. In fact, the French have an even bigger, not just not just economic, but constitutional crisis as well. You know, giving away all fish for the next 12 years, things like that.

Completely outrageous. Total betrayal of what people voted for. But the focus. The focus. And yes, trade with Europe is important.

Of course it is. But the real focus has to be what's happening internally within the UK economy.

The whole thing. It needs, it needs a rethink.

But all Starmer has done. All Starmer has done is make concessions in.

We need far more risk taking. And, by the way, much more broadly than the prime minister. We need to encourage risk taking in the economy.

When you're in a bad relationship, you have to take risks to reshape it.

Alignment's catastrophic.

Catastrophic, moronic.

It's keeping us firmly hooked back in the 20th century not in the 21st. It makes no sense at all from any angle.

100% plus.

I was.

It's called living.

It's called living. Look I could be a boring so-and-so like most people in politics. I'm not. I've lived. I've had some huge successes.

I've had some massive failures. I'm 61. I've got a vast experience of life. I've seen the good times, I've seen the bad times, I've seen success, I've seen failure. I think that makes me better qualified to be a leader than those that have lived steady, what I might describe as boring lives.

Well, I've made mistakes personally. Obviously, I've made I've been I've made I've had successes, too. But I've made mistakes financially. Look, I've lived the big I've lived the Big Dipper of life, but I've, in the end, been very lucky. I'm still here.

I'm still alive, despite a couple of goes at not being. I think that's given me a couple of things. Number one, a pretty rounded life. And number two, I'm not actually frightened of anything. And that I think, and that I think, is a very, very valuable asset given what I may well be facing in two or three years time.

Hmm.

Oh, gosh.

Well, look.

I've got.

And fun. Sense of fun.

Yeah, say 'Make Britain Great Again' to an American audience, you've just elected a president on 'Make America Great Again'. It's quite funny.

Of course I meant it. But you know.

But you know it's fun.

Yeah, that's true.

We had a stable society, we had belief. Things that bound us. Perhaps religion being one of them. And by the way, government can't force people to believe, but there was a shared sense of religion.

Community. Yes. I mean, I'm I have to say, struggling a bit.

Well, of course. I'm an Anglican. It's been a catastrophe for 25 years.

Oh terrible Absolutely awful.

Well, if I was a more regular churchgoer, I probably would have defected to the Catholics.

I haven't. I haven't. I've thought about it a couple of times. No, I think a sense of community, a sense of family. I mean, frankly, you know, the values around the meaning of family, community, country, those things were much stronger in years that have gone by.

Well Britain was great. Britain was great imperially. Britain was great industrially. Britain was great in terms of innovation. Britain was great in terms actually, in many ways, I think of taking some very good things the large parts of the world.

Britain was great in leaving behind some amazing legacies, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore.

I think really what we did, I think really what we did since 1688, I think we were actually fortunate to have our civil war.

Well you asked me. I've just given you an answer.

I don't want Britain to go back anywhere. I want Britain to go forwards. And that's really the point. And it's one of the reasons why, you know, I've been very critical of the government, of the Bank of England, very critical of much of our economic policy. I think we are stuck in a rut.

I think we're stuck with an old, out-of-touch globalist mindset about so many things. No, no, no, no. You can respect your traditions. You can respect your past. You can have a sense and a feeling of what history is.

I'm not going back anywhere I want to go, I want us to be in the 21st century. We're not there. We're literally here, we are sitting. I mean, I can see St. Paul's as I'm talking to you.

We're in the middle of the City of London. We have a revolution going on, an economic, a money, revolution going on with digital assets, crypto currency. It's real. It's growing very, very quickly. And what's happening here?

Nothing. Literally nothing.

Sorry.

No, because we're years and years behind the rest of the world. Go to Miami, Go to Miami, fly to Miami tonight and you tomorrow morning can go out and buy everything from a Starbucks coffee to a Ferrari with a card that you've loaded up from an ATM in the street with Bitcoin, Etherium or other currencies. And the world is changing and we're not changing.

And, and, and if you think about, just one, one more point. Think about it. Actually, we have been great innovators, you know, whether it's the industrial revolution, whether it's the nuclear energy industry, which we led the world in just just a few decades ago, we're very, very inventive. We're very creative. We are naturally a very entrepreneurial country.

I think I just believe we've lost a sense of all of that.

Well, I think the big, I mean, the bigger mistake was taking away banking regulation from them, from an organization that had been doing it since 1694, gave it a bunch of tick box bureaucrats down in Canary Wharf.

Yeah, look.

They are useless. They are utterly useless. We need a complete.

We need a radical rethink of what they are, what they're for, who they serve, what their purpose is.

Actually, you're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. Because my argument with crypto with digital assets is we need a regulated market. Again, you go back to the medieval times, it was all about having some basic framework of rules that consumers and market users can trust.

So I'm not against regulation. I'm not a complete, you know, laissez faire merchant, but you have to get that balance right.

I think we need a complete radical rethink. Yes, on many of these things. And the FCA has been a total failure.

I was debanked. You know, I was debanked. I was rejected by ten other banks. I was literally being frozen out of the financial system to the point I might have had to leave the country, which indeed is what they wanted.

Well, luckily, I'm big enough and ugly enough to fight my own corner. But there are thousands of people out there who've been debanked because of excessive rules or anti-money laundering directives or whatever else it may be who've got no voice for themselves.

Well, he's a nice enough bloke, but.

Well he's had a good run. We might find someone else.

He's had a good run.

I'm not signaling anything. I'm just saying.

If Andrew Bailey wants to get with the 21st century. And by the way, there's one encouraging thing, because I went to see him last month. He just put a limit on the number of stablecoins any individual can hold. I said, Andrew, this is ridiculous. This is dinosaur-like.

Within a week he changed it. So maybe he was listening. But the Bank of England, the British government, the regulator, whatever shape that takes, they've all got to understand the world is changing, has changed very, very rapidly.

Such as?

Oh, poor old Boris. I feel sorry for him really. I guess if you fail that much, you have to lash out at somebody. Look, I mean. I mean, this is, of course, politics and narratives, isn't it?

You know, just because 14, 13 years ago I said in an interview I thought Putin was a very effective political operator but not a nice human being. Suddenly you're a Putin supporter. Funny enough, the year after I said that the Queen met him. Now, whether she was seen to be a collaborator, I don't know.

No. You think. How do you know, what I'm going to say?

Oh the endless eastward expansion of NATO and the European Union. And Kissinger warned about this years ago. We shouldn't have done it, but that's in the past. We did it. Putin's invaded.

I was really hoping that Trump could bring Putin to heel and that some kind of compromise could be struck as it's just been recently struck with Gaza and Israel. Clearly, that is not going to happen. Obviously, Putin is a very bad dude. Simple.

Oh, he's putting huge pressure on he's putting pressure on India. He's putting pressure on. And I think what.

I think Trump feels that Putin's made a fool of him. And clearly Putin is not a rational man. He wants to come to a logical deal. So the idea that I'm soft on this is just nonsense.

Appalling. Appalling. And he will go to prison for a long time. At least I hope he does. But you know what?

For three weeks he was.

For three weeks he was.

I've known him for years. I've known him for 25 years. He was unbelievably, you perhaps don't know this, a bishop in the Mormon church. I mean, God fearing to a level I've almost never met, I mean, so uncorrupted. I thought he wouldn't even drink coffee.

And there he was taking money to ask questions. Appalling.

Without any shadow of a doubt.

I if if there were if I even suspected it, they wouldn't be let through the door.

I'm sure that my mother's not a mass murderer. There's nothing. I'm as sure as that. You know, I mean, how can you be sure of anything in life? Well, you know, you know.

The question itself is a stupid one.

The question itself is a stupid question. You know that, and I know that. I believe 100% with all my heart there's nobody else.

Gotta shoot them down.

Gotta shoot them down.

Listen love, you're trying ever so hard. Russia needs to be taught a lesson. Listen love, you're trying ever so hard. I'm the only person in the world I think that stood up in the European Parliament in 2014. And do you know what I said?

There will be a war in Ukraine. It's coming. I'm the only person that got it right. I might have made one comment once, 13 years ago that said I admired him as a political operator but not as a human being. And I'd never live in Russia, period.

You can go on as long as you like. I've made the position perfectly clear.

They're in Belgium. They're in Belgium

You better ask the Belgian government. But clearly, if they're there through illegal means, they should be.

My instinct is I think Putin's a really bad bloke. And you can sit me here for an hour, you're going to get nowhere.

I'd be very cautious about doing that. But a UN force, might think about a Korean approach to it. Would I put the British army badges, badged as a British army? Be deeply, deeply thoughtful about that.

I'd be deeply thoughtful about doing that, and it wouldn't be a clever thing to do.

Well, I'm not a warmonger.

No you are quite right.

You are quite right. I'm not a warmonger, rather like President Trump. I'm not a warmonger. Those that went before have been persistent warmongers. I'm not.

I happen to think that what the UN did in Korea was remarkable. And still over 70 years on has held. And South Korea has become just I mean, the most incredible country, which, by the way, does things far better than we do in terms of building nuclear energy and much else. That would be the right way to go forward.

Yeah.

What he's done is amazing.

Well I think it's I think what I think they see this is, again, you know, I was with Tom Homan, who's his border czar a few weeks ago to try and find out what's really going on in America. It's really interesting. Border crossings are down 97% since Trump came to power. But the interesting thing is about deportations. So they have a thousand ICE squads out around America knocking on doors saying you're here illegally.

And you've got two choices. Number one, you can go. We'll fund your return. We'll give you a few dollars. We'll say to you that you can legally, if you want, apply for a skills visa in the years to come, to come back to America.

And if we think you're going to be a productive member of the economy and of society, we'll let you in.

That's your media narrative. I've just told you what's happening and what is really interesting.

Well, I mean, I would hope if they didn't have guns, they'd be mad.

What I want. Do you know how do you know how many people have voluntarily left America in eight months? 1.6 million. It is truly remarkable. 1.6 million people have peacefully, with incentives not just to leave, but potential.

What I'm learning is if you do things well and do things properly, it can be highly effective.

It's a look, we're not America. We'll do it our way, not the American way.

Our way will involve Border Force doing the job that they would so desperately like to do.

No, they.

At the moment, Border Force are a taxi service and they hate it.

They absolutely hate doing what they're doing, which is why I so many people resign. Sad.

You may see it that way.

No. That's what I mean.

French Navy, bring them across, escort them all the way, Border force, bring them out, pick them up, bring them in. They drop their passports in the sea. They drop their phones in the sea. We're supposed to just put up with it. But you know what?

We're not going to.

Look, I think the truth is that most people that were caught who were in Britain illegally, if we do it nicely and do it properly, would accept they have to go.

I think we can. You know, of course, theory, reality, being in government. I get all of that. I understand all of that.

Yes, but but but there is a very important message here. Very. I mean, in most countries in the world. If you enter illegally, you are chucked in prison literally in a majority of countries in the world. Illegal entry means immediate imprisonment.

Detained and deported.

I didn't say it. You said it.

No you. You said it. You said it. What do you say? That's fine.

I'm not playing games. I'm not playing games. People would be detained and deported. Dead simple.

There are plenty of ex-military bases. We can keep them. But the point look, you know, it's very interesting. Australia had all this in 2012. They stopped it within a fortnight.

Within a fortnight. No one came illegally. You know why? They were towed back to Indonesia. It can be done.

It's about political will. It's about being tough for a short period of time. It can be done. It can be done.

Yeah, that was about.

That was about. Yeah, actually we'd probably go further than that. I mean.

Well I mean, you know, Milei in Argentina shows that you can do it, but you have to work out in doing it what the cost of that is.

To be fair, Milei has. But look, we test bedding this in the local councils that we won last May where we've cut about half a billion so far. You know, it's a very good start in six months.

Well you can find the savings.

Net zero. £30 billion saved. Cutbacks in civil service. Tens of billions saved. But of course, the big one.

The big one. And the thing that I've got to think out far more fully. Is the whole explosion of PIP, of disability payments.

No, I'm not rethinking them. I suspect what we come back will be a will be a lot more radical than what you saw there.

Well, as I said to you before I came and did this, I'm going to be laying out some economic stuff between now and the budget in terms of speeches. What is for certain, I I tell you what is for certain with the economy, and we touched on this right at the beginning. We touched on this place in the 80s, but we could go more broadly across the country. In the 80s, there was an attitudinal change towards work, towards having a go towards risk, which I'm pro I'm very pro risk. I'm very pro individuals taking risk.

I don't believe we should protect people from themselves. We should allow them to go out and have a go. We need an attitudinal change towards success, towards money, towards business, towards tax and incentives. And and this is stuff. That you can't necessarily write in a manifesto.

No, you can't. You can't. Attitudinal stuff. You can't. You cannot write.

No I don't think. You've been at the BBC all your life. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

I'm talking about attitudinal change within society. You can't put any of that in manifestos. It's about a buzz. It's about a vibe. Yeah, it's about how a country feels.

And you know, one of the reasons and you know, you played that tape to me earlier. You know what is interesting about Trump's America and there are bits of it you can dislike or like or whatever. What is interesting about Trump's America is a lot more people in America are having a go. They're setting up companies, they're borrowing money, they're taking risk. We need to get to that place.

And as I say, you can't put it in a piece of paper. And the one thing I'm certain of.

That's right. That's exactly right.

I don't think that's fair. You know what? I don't think that's fair.

Even in my time.

Even in my time, even in my time in the European Parliament where perhaps I achieved some level of infamy, was I turning my fire on people? No, I was just teasing them. I was just teasing them. They were turning their fire on me. I mean, we just had a party conference season where the levels of insightful abuse that have come from Starmer and his cabinet are off the scale.

I've never behaved like that lot with anybody. I might have strong opinions about express what I believe in strongly what I'm against very strongly. I don't think if you look through my my political career that you will find personal invective, you will find teasing, and not much more than that. We have to we have to have a vibe, a buzz that says to young people, setting up businesses, taking risk, even having failures, even having failures along the way is a good thing, not a bad thing. And you know something?

I might succeed. I might fail. I accept that.

I'm going to have a go.

Yes.

Well I think the two are the same thing. We're in that much trouble, we're in that much trouble.

Well it's not just me, is it? There's a whole movement here now. There's a whole movement here now. And you've seen over, and I'm sitting talking to you. I don't do many interviews these days.

I allow others to go and do it. There's a much broader range of talent. You know, that has, that has come on the scene for the party, for the party. We're building a mass membership very rapidly.

We're gonna make bigger promises. We're gonna make even bigger promises. We're gonna make even bigger problems.

We're having a full rethink of everything.

Well, look, we're in government.

We're in government now. We're in government now in the counties. In local government. You know, we're going to do our damnedest to be in government in Wales next May. We may or may not succeed, but we're going to do our damnedest.

I want to have to be judged by what we do. I accept that.

In terms of standing up for the national interest above all else. Yes. In terms of keeping promises that he made to the electorate. Yes. There are many other areas in which we might disagree or might do things differently.

There are other areas we might disagree, social policy, etc. We might see things differently. But the fundamentalism of Trump is you tell the electorate, I'm going to do X and you actually do it. And that's what he's doing. And, you know, and we might look at I mean, look, you know, you and I could sit here over a cup of tea and talk about some of the tariff machinations and say to ourselves, what the hell is going on?

Well, we could, you know, go back to the thirties and think about tariffs and damage has done to the economy, etc..

It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant.

No, no, no, no. Listen to me. It's irrelevant. He promised the American public he'd use tariffs as a weapon. He's doing it.

Yes. And we will have to if we succeed. There's a long way to go. But as I said, you earlier we're halfway through the marathon. If we succeed, we must do the same, because one of the reasons why Reform is doing so well is there is a complete breakdown of trust.

No one believes a blooming thing the other parties say.

I didn't write it. I inherited it. To be fair.

I came in after it was published. To be fair. We changed the front page. But look, are the principles right within it. Yes.

Can we?

I would very, very much look.

Have you seen what the Conservatives have?

No I stick to. I would like nobody in Britain to pay income tax until they earn £20,000.

I dont I dont. I will answer that over the course of the next few weeks. Not today, as I told you before I came on here. But do I want to honour that? Yes.

Is it realistic, immediately were in government? No. And those circumstances have changed. Are the principles, aspirations and even the numbers that are set out there wrong? No they're not, they're right.

But it's all about getting things in the right order.

I wouldn't comment on that particularly.

Oh, I can't remember. And if I did, I wouldn't. I wouldn't tell you. I wouldn't. Do you know why?

Do you know what? One of the reasons I've survived so long in public life is I'm very discreet. And, you know, if I have private meetings with people, I never discuss it.

Well, I don't know who he is or she is, but.

Well. Well, I wouldn't comment on it. I wouldn't comment on it. I don't comment on things like that. And people trust me because of that.

You know, I keep confidences.

That's fair. That's fair. And I mean, that is fair. Yeah. I think a lot of people around the world that we are going to win the next election just because they're people that you know, like this country, see what a mess it's got itself into.

I stuck at it more than anybody. I've been doing this since 1993. Did I finally retire on the 31st of January 2020? Yes, I did that. I was done with it.

I came back into politics last year. It was probably the toughest decision of my life. You know, I turned 60 last year. Life pretty settled some good jobs, accompanied by being quite successful in a variety of areas. First couple of grandkids born.

You know, life was pretty good. So I knew I was making a big sacrifice coming back into it. And I'm determined to make it a success. And. I think I've been very, we talk about persistence, but I've generally been pretty consistent in the kind of values and views and beliefs that I've had.

And I can I sustain it for four years? Yeah, it's a long haul, but yeah. Can the government sustain it for four years? I think very unlikely. And I think, you know, just as you've seen Reform take over the centre right of British politics, I think was a massive change on the left about to come.

And I think that I think that the government will be forced by '27 into a genuine austerity budget. I mean, a real austerity budget. Just the markets, you know, are going to demand that. And I suspect at that moment, the left of British politics splits in a very, very dramatic way. And I think the growth of the Greens.

The Corbynites, the sort of urban left of politics, the the those who vote on Gaza and religion more than British issues. All of those things, I think they will struggle to see out. '27.

I do. Yeah.

I do read a lot. Yeah, I do read a lot.

Well, I've that the last book I read was Mr. Balfour's Poodle, which was about the constitutional crisis between the Commons and the Lords.

Yeah, the principles are exactly the same. And by the way, the Salisbury Convention has been there since 1911.

Because say we get elected on a manifesto to say we're going to do X, Y and Z. What if the House what if the House of Lords were to block, what if the what if the civil service were to block us? These are all the things that we're thinking and going through at the moment.

Principles don't change over centuries.

Over centuries principles don't change.

Yeah, like a little bit of poetry. I wouldn't say hugely. I read. I like biography. I like history.

My current book, which I've barely started, is written by the former prime minister of Armenia, and it's about how small states can survive in the big, wide world. Sarkasanis is his name, who wrote it.

Yeah. I mean, I like to go out and walk. when I get time. I like to fish. I like a day at the races.

I like. I like the odd day at the cricket. There are things I enjoy doing. No, the truth is. I mean, look, we're living in a we are living in a 24/7 media environment.

I'm a political entrepreneur, even though I'm trying to shed responsibilities of the party for the moment. I'm still the main entry point for most new people that want to give money or stand as candidates.

So most of my life these days, believe it or not, is focusing on what's beneath the bonnet, focusing on the structure of the party, focusing on the funding of the party, focusing on making sure that across all the regions of the United Kingdom, we're prepared. And I just sort of say this to you, sort of towards the end, that I don't think anyone's yet really understood. Next May, May the sixth, next year is the British equivalent of the midterms in America. These are elections of a magnitude and a significance that almost nobody understands.

Oh come on, please.

I would say the question's beneath you. But I would also say this. If you, the only people that call me racist tend to be called Jocasta and they've gone to St Mary's Ascot and be upper middle class and very snobby.

Our message is if you're in this country legally, whether you've been here for one generation or 150 generations, if you're paying your taxes, obeying the law, being part of our community, recognizing there is commonality between all of us, whilst we're different, things that we share, you're incredibly welcome. But are we here to be the dumping ground of the world? Are we here to be the food bank of the world? Are we here to have uncontrolled mass illegal immigration, changing our culture, endangering women in our streets? No, on that, we're going to get really, really tough.

And I think you'll be very, very surprised how many people from all different backgrounds and religions from all over the world support that message and want that as the country that they've either been born into or chosen to live in.